Kayak registration

[wickedinhere]

I am looking at buying a cobra FND and want put a trolling motor on it and i have to register it. The closest place for me to buy one is in texas. I started looking at what it will take to register the FND in louisiana and if i buy it in LA its pretty simple but if i bring one in from TX they want some kind of tax form saying the taxes were paid in louisiana. Does anyone know the process of buying in TX and registering it in louisiana.

[theoldcaster]

if you call the louisiana department of revenue sales tax devision they will walk you through it, it is not a problem, if you have a bill of sale

[wickedinhere]

This seems like alot of trouble to register a boat from out of state. I was just looking for someone who has actually done this. Here is what the dept of rev and sales tax says.

In the case of a boat brought into Louisiana from another state, the certification must also be signed by a tax officer or other authorized representative of the Louisiana Department of Revenue and a representative of the parish. If any sales taxes are due, they must be paid directly to the Department of Revenue and/or such payment noted on the signed certificate.

[theoldcaster]

I have done it several times, you pay your taxes to the parish you live in, it is no big deal, don't let it keep you from your purchase

[Branch_Office]

I'm thinking LA is going to want the their tax collections on this - could be wrong. The same things happens when you buy a car elsewhere and try to register it here as well.

I would check with the Texas dealer and see if they could forgo the tax since you are out of state and explain the circumstances and see if there is any compassion or assistance on their end that could be extended. Maybe a lower sales price to make up for the double taxes.

Interesting scenario...if you were not putting a trolling motor on it there would not be an issue I don't think.

Keep us posted since I'm sure this will come up again. Several of our members have purchased yaks out of state either new or used.

[theoldcaster]

When you make a purchase anywhere on anything they collect the tax for you and send it on to the parish and to the state, in this case you do the same thing, you are just doing it yourself. Once you pay your tax at the parish office then you go by the state dept of revenue give them theirs, it cost no more than it would if you purchased it in Louisiana.

[wickedinhere]

I think i will just drive a few more miles and buy it in louisiana. I understand paying taxes to the state and parish but i have to get the form signed by 2 different people so it wont be as simple as mailing it in. If i buy it in louisiana all i have to do is fill the registration form out with a copy of the receipt and mail it in. I am also afraid of being double taxed as mentioned above.

[MDR]

Another point to add here folks in the event you were not aware of it. In addition to having proof of taxes paid you must also have a certificate of origination to register your yak. I had to send an e-mail to Ocean to get mine. It was simple and Ocean was super cooperative and quick, but it initially kept me from being able to register my yak the day I went to WLF to do it.

[derrelt]

Mike, my ocean manual a certificate of origination on the back cover already signed (stamped). I just filled in the blanks and the state took it with no questions.

[wickedinhere]

Is that just for for bringing one in from another state?

[wickedinhere]

Another point to add here folks in the event you were not aware of it. In addition to having proof of taxes paid you must also have a certificate of origination to register your yak. I had to send an e-mail to Ocean to get mine. It was simple and Ocean was super cooperative and quick, but it initially kept me from being able to register my yak the day I went to WLF to do it.

Is that just for for bringing one in from another state?

[jallen355]

No. A certificiate or origin, or manufacturer's statement of origin is a title. Kayaks, like boats, cars, trucks, etc. all have one. You should get one from the dealer you purchase your kayak from. Just make sure they give you one. It should be signed off on by the selling dealer and yourself and then notorized and sent into the LDWF along with a bill of sale from the dealer. Your bill of sale also acts as proof of sales tax paid in Louisiana. If no Louisiana sales tax was paid, you will have to remit that to...?? Possibly the LDWF could accept the sales tax and remit it to the state. Call them and ask about that. That's your only snafu..and it's a minor one.

[Yak-a-Lou]

This isn't my area of expertise but here are the instructions straight off of the form. The 'application form and instructions' can be found here:
http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/boating/registration/

Note: I've underlined and made bold the word "and" on the third line. The form says "or" but that's no longer true.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

REGISTRATION INSTRUCTIONS:

ALL REQUESTS FOR REGISTRATION TRANSACTIONS REQUIRE A COMPLETED APPLICATION ALONG WITH OTHER APPLICABLE DOCUMENTATION AS FOLLOWS. FAILURE TO SUPPLY ALL INFORMATION INCLUDING SIGNATURE OF OWNER WILL RESULT IN REJECTION OF YOUR APPLICATION.

New Application/Proof of ownership: A copy of invoice from dealer AND original manufacturer’s statement of origin. Proof of state and local taxes paid must be evident on the invoice, or application must be accompanied by a completed original Tax Certification Form (R-1331).

If coming into Louisiana from another state applicant must submit the out-of-state title (if from a titling state), and/or registration, invoice from dealer, or a notarized bill of sale.

Application for a boat purchased outside of Louisiana must also be accompanied by a completed tax certification form (R1331) unless, purchased from an individual and the boat is older than 10 years.

Found or abandoned boats are not eligible for registration.

[Yak-a-Lou]

You can also find instructions for titling your vessel at the above link. You're not required to title your vessel. Titling may make life easier with motorboats but I'm not sure that life would be easier if you title kayaks and canoes. If someone is aware of notable benefits involved with titling kayaks and canoes, please speak up. Again, this isn't my area of expertise.

[wickedinhere]

This isn't my area of expertise but here are the instructions straight off of the form. The 'application form and instructions' can be found here:
http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/boating/registration/

Note: I've underlined and made bold the word "and" on the third line. The form says "or" but that's no longer true.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

REGISTRATION INSTRUCTIONS:

ALL REQUESTS FOR REGISTRATION TRANSACTIONS REQUIRE A COMPLETED APPLICATION ALONG WITH OTHER APPLICABLE DOCUMENTATION AS FOLLOWS. FAILURE TO SUPPLY ALL INFORMATION INCLUDING SIGNATURE OF OWNER WILL RESULT IN REJECTION OF YOUR APPLICATION.

New Application/Proof of ownership: A copy of invoice from dealer AND original manufacturer’s statement of origin. Proof of state and local taxes paid must be evident on the invoice, or application must be accompanied by a completed original Tax Certification Form (R-1331).

If coming into Louisiana from another state applicant must submit the out-of-state title (if from a titling state), and/or registration, invoice from dealer, or a notarized bill of sale.

Application for a boat purchased outside of Louisiana must also be accompanied by a completed tax certification form (R1331) unless, purchased from an individual and the boat is older than 10 years.

Found or abandoned boats are not eligible for registration.

You would think they would update their form on the website form OR to AND. THis is why people get so confused, you think you have what you need then this happens.

[wickedinhere]

I am just gonna buy one in louisiana who is a cobra dealer in southeast louisiana that is good. I am in the lake charles area but i cant find a cobra dealer in my area. THanks for all the info guys.

[MDR]

YAL, One of my problems when I went to LDWF to register was that the form says that the certificate of origin is only needed to title the craft, but not to register it. I eventually spoke with a supervisor because the woman behind the glass was less than helpful and was getting an attitude problem since I was asking a question.
The supervisor explained that the way they were doing things now requires that the certificate of origin also be provided. She stated that the paperwork had not been updated to reflect their change in policy. Good job in adding the "and" since it was the "or" on the form that gave me grief.

Wicked is correct. It is exactly that particular wording that presented the problem I was having. I was sure when I went in that I had researched what I needed to and had the documentation needed. Being told that I needed a document that I did not have at the time was pretty frustrating. It seemed pretty simple to me at the time since the form clearly stated that the only time the cetificate of origin was only needed if you were titling the vessel. Since I saw no need to do that I thought I was in good shape. Oh well, at least now I know and hopefully others do too.

I sitll have no idea how I am going to get my numbers to stick on my yak. The rough surface of the OK makes it dang near impossible to get anything to stick on.

[marshdaddy]

I didn't think that sales tax was usually charged on out of state purchases on cars, boats, 4 wheelers etc. I've never been charged sales tax when bought out of state. Just have to pay it when registered here.

[derrelt]

MDR, I got the number pack from Academy and put them on below the seam on the side. My hull is smooth from that seam down. They are holding fine. be sure to wipe with alcohol before apply. They are real close to the water but thy are there so I am legal.

[Tigerfish]

I just want to be clear about something..........none of this is required unless you put a trolling motor on your yak, correct?

[wickedinhere]

Yes you only have to register it if your gonna use a trolling motor on it.

[MDR]

Thanks Derrelt. I figured that was going to be the only place to put them.

[Yak-a-Lou]

MDR,

I was up at HQ a couple of weeks ago and had to try to settle a dispute / keep the peace when a guy who sells boats for a living came in and didn't have the right paperwork because of the and/or issue. It is indeed kind of a shame. Someone, somewhere up the chain has made the decision to let all the current forms get used up before ordering new forms. That's LOTS of forms. They're trying to save the state money during troubled times but causing notable trouble by doing so. Write a letter. Seriously.

Meanwhile... as to how to affix your numbers. I've seen/heard/read where people have put their numbers and decals on placards and attached the placards to the bow of their kayak. Search around on the www and you'll find something.

[Reel Rebel]

YAL,

Know this isn't your specific area...but:
What if you buy a used yak that's never been registered and add a TM, and the seller has no original invoice and the retailer they bought it from is out of business?

Confused yet?

[MDR]

Good idea YAL

[Yak-a-Lou]

RR,

I'm not really certain. I'd assume you'd have to start off with a notarized bill of sale. After that... email the registration ladies @
wlf.louisiana.gov/boating/registration/ Outline things as you did here and see what they say. I'd be interested to learn what they say. I know that similar situations pop up with small flat boats sometimes and I'm not sure how they handle it. Bureaucracy is involved so it's not likely to be easy.

You can also call them @ 225-765-2898. Ask for Ms. June. She's the #2 honcho-ette and knows her business.

Try to be patient with them. The rules are stiff to keep people from stealing boats and trying to get them registered in their own names. It's a PITA on both ends of the counter.

Sorry I couldn't help more.

[Speckled_Tiger]

Try to be patient with them. The rules are stiff to keep people from stealing boats and trying to get them registered in their own names. It's a PITA on both ends of the counter.

Very good point YAL. As a state employee that has to enforce/inform oil well operators of some very iffy/badly worded policies and instructions myself, it's important to always remember that the person on the phone did not make the policy. They are simply doing their job. If you need to vent your frustration, write letters, emails, whatever to those in charge. Don't shoot the messenger.

[wickedinhere]

Well i called the dept of revenue to see about paying taxes on an out of state boat, no answer so i left a message and emailed them so we shall see what happens.

[Branch_Office]

Thanks for the update and keeping us posted. I am sure there are several of us here in the same yak.

[wickedinhere]

I got a call from the la dept of rev he said i pay the state taxes there then i have to pay local taxes in my parish at the tax accessors office. The office is only open on wednesday and i have to make an appointment. They dont make it easy, this process really needs to be changed to make it easier. You would think that the wildlife and fisheries would collect the sales tax on out of state boats, like when you go to the dmv you pay the taxes there when register it. I will post how the process goes when i get my kayak.

[Branch_Office]

No, they don't want to make it easy! Thanks for the update.

[wickedinhere]

Well i called the tax accessors office to make sure that is where i pay the parish taxes and that was incorrect info. The nice lady told me i pay them at the school board office so i called them and they said i finally had the right place. I finally got it sorted out. I think i will just order a fish and dive online instead of driving around the world to get one. I wish there was a dealer close to me.

[Branch_Office]

Is that the building located on Foster close to Claycut? Address if you have it please...

[wickedinhere]

I am in southwest louisiana.

[Branch_Office]

Sorry, I thought you were in BR

[wickedinhere]

Well got my fish and dive ordered so i will start the registration process as soon as it gets here.

[Surfmonkey]

What you need to register your yak...

1. Bill of Sale (receipt) showing you purchased and taxes paid on purchase price. Description of item purchased has to be on receipt.
2. Certificate of Origination
3. State paper filled out and completed for registration of vessel.
4. A check made out to LDWF

If purchased out of state of Louisiana, you have to go to the state tax office in your parish, bring your receipt and they will charge you
appropriate taxes...

[jallen355]

Surfmonkey is right on. I got mine in the mail Friday.

BTW, I have never seen a registration number like I have recieved. I've ownded numorous boats and numbers are always the same pattern. Example: LA-XXXX-YY-ZZ where X=four digits, Y=two letters and Z=the state issued sticker. My new registrion reads: 061976-13 and I'm not even 100% sure how to display it properly as it different than any set of registration numbers I've ever seen. I'm thinking it would look like this: LA 061976 13 with "13" being that state sticker as that is when mine expires.

[Yak-a-Lou]

Surfmonkey is right on. I got mine in the mail Friday.

BTW, I have never seen a registration number like I have recieved. I've ownded numorous boats and numbers are always the same pattern. Example: LA-XXXX-YY-ZZ where X=four digits, Y=two letters and Z=the state issued sticker. My new registrion reads: 061976-13 and I'm not even 100% sure how to display it properly as it different than any set of registration numbers I've ever seen. I'm thinking it would look like this: LA 061976 13 with "13" being that state sticker as that is when mine expires.

No, no, no... you're looking at the "Decal Number." The registration number will be "LA" followed by four numbers and then two letters. Keep looking. It should look like this: "LA 2469 FU"
;)

[jallen355]

Amen, Yak. I'll look again...for the fifth time. I've even got the numbers already. I just did not want to apply them until I figured it out. Like I said, this is not my first rodeo. Don't know how I'm missing it.

[Yak-a-Lou]

If you want to fax me a copy send me a PM and I'll send you my fax #

[jallen355]

Let me look again this evening. It's probably just a brain fart on my end.

[wickedinhere]

Well got my kayak in today and was all excited until i found a hole. I emailed the place i got it from so we shall see what happens. The nose also had some of the coating chipped off and someone tried to repair it but only did one side so i know its not shipping damage.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b235/wickedinhere/nose.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b235/wickedinhere/rear.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b235/wickedinhere/kayak.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b235/wickedinhere/kayak2.jpg

[Branch_Office]

Well that just sucks doesn't it! You think the dealer tried to put one on you or what?

[Surfmonkey]

they sold you a blemished yak, and I mean blemished. If you paid for a non-blem, and you got his one, get your $$$ money back. I don't care who they are, if they sold you this yak and you paid your $$$ for it, they are not doing you right. If you want a Malibu product, contact Bighead at: ryanpen@i-55.com. Ask him what he has, how he can get it to you, and if he gives a discount to BCKFC members...

[wickedinhere]

Well it came directly from cobra kayaks warehouse in cali they had just got a shipment off of the ship. The dealer i got it from had it shipped directly to me so he never saw the kayak.
He has responded and is waiting on cobra to see whats going to happen.

[Branch_Office]

Please keep us posted on their "customer care" in regards to you... We want to know for the future!

[wickedinhere]

I will, the guy i ordered from is doing all he can, the 2 guys he needs to talk to at cobra were out till tomorrow.
The only thing i will accept is a new kayak no cost to me or give me 50% of the purchase price back and i will get it fixed locally.

[wickedinhere]

Well half moon bay kayak and cobra made it right i got a 50 percent refund and will get the kayak fixed myself. I got some waterweld at academy today to fix the hole.

[wickedinhere]

Update: I am still waiting on an MSO from cobra it was sent out last tuesday so as soon as i get it i will continue the process. Cobra is not very good at answering emails! This is my first and last cobra kayak.

[valvguy1]

RR,

I'm not really certain. I'd assume you'd have to start off with a notarized bill of sale. After that... email the registration ladies @
wlf.louisiana.gov/boating/registration/ Outline things as you did here and see what they say. I'd be interested to learn what they say. I know that similar situations pop up with small flat boats sometimes and I'm not sure how they handle it. Bureaucracy is involved so it's not likely to be easy.

You can also call them @ 225-765-2898. Ask for Ms. June. She's the #2 honcho-ette and knows her business.

Try to be patient with them. The rules are stiff to keep people from stealing boats and trying to get them registered in their own names. It's a PITA on both ends of the counter.

Sorry I couldn't help more.

Hey Yak-a-Lou here's a report on what happened when I called today.

Ms. June must not be there anymore - at least that was what I was told by "Stephanie".

Per Stephanie - yes you MUST have the original Sales Receipt where the Yak was bought from a Dealership in order to Register ANY boat. I asked if is was reasonable to be able to produce that kind of information - when the boat was a small rowboat or a yak that was second or third hand and never needed to be registered before. The answer was just "pure silence" on the other end. After a few seconds - I went on to ask if there was any other mechanism for second hand boats. This time I was told - no, you need the original paperwork. After a few seconds of silence on my end I received a:

Just fill out the paperwork for a boat registration. Then go get a Notarized Affadavit of Ownership and a Court Order from a Justice of the Peace. Turn in your paperwork and a LDWF Marine Investigator will have to research/investigate it. When I didn't get all of this information and had to ask Stephanie to repeat it - well....... that was a REAL problem.

I'm not sure what to do now. I'm thoroughly frustrated. Since I have the email addresses for the Board Members & the Secretary - I guess I'll start by emailing them. I'm SURE there is a way to do this........ I just have to get past the "no can doers" and get to the Decision Makers. If you have any suggestions - I'd appreciate it.

[valvguy1]

i sent an email to LDWF Secretary Barham today and he had a Capt from LDWF call me within 15 minutes. I think during the next 24 hours we will have a definitive answer from LDWF regarding the Registration of "Casual Sale (Person to Person sale of used kayaks)" Kayaks. She was still looking into a couple issues and we'll talk again tomorrow. As soon as I have that info - I'll pass it on in this forum.

[Branch_Office]

It is my understanding that unless you plan on installing a trolling motor on a kayak, you do not need to register it. The same for a bateau but the minute you install any kind of motor device it must be registered and that is when the fun starts. I am still in the process myself right now.

Someone correct me if I am wrong!

[Where Y'ak?]

You are correct. No motor=no registration. Motor (even electric)=registration.

[Branch_Office]

You are correct. No motor=no registration. Motor (even electric)=registration.

Thanks, that is what I thought!

[Yak-a-Lou]

valvguy1,
Sorry this is such a big PITA. Obviously the rules weren't written with us in mind.

Actually, I don't even know where to find the rules. The instructions on the back of the registration form basic and they don't cover your situation. Somewhere, more rules exist.

Try this link: http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=92507

[who-yak]

A friend of a friend penciled in the description, hull no. and price of his very used recently bought yak on the receipt from a small sporting goods store. This receipt was only for items he had just purchased. (landing net, lures, etc.) Like many here he purchased the used yak for cash and no documents were exchanged. He sent a copy of this receipt along with all the other info. required (if any) and received his registration. I don't advise any one do this of course, just saying.....

[valvguy1]

A friend of a friend penciled in the description, hull no. and price of his very used recently bought yak on the receipt from a small sporting goods store. This receipt was only for items he had just purchased. (landing net, lures, etc.) Like many here he purchased the used yak for cash and no documents were exchanged. He sent a copy of this receipt along with all the other info. required (if any) and received his registration. I don't advise any one do this of course, just saying.....

Yeah. I'd be REAL careful. During my conversation with LDWF yesterday there was some discussion of fraud and culpability. One scenario was described as a Misdemeanor and the other as a Felony. It's just NOT WORTH IT to get in trouble over a yak. No way!!!

There are a couple of LDWF people working on this today. Hopefully we'll all know the rules soon andLDWF has volunteered to come to one of our meetings - explain the rules - and help those interested in registering their yaks.

[who-yak]

Thanks for the update. And don't worry, with my luck, I'd never try any thing like that. Just passing on a story I heard about a guy who was very, very, very frustrated. Like those posting here he tried several times (trips to B.R.) to do it the right way. Then he did it his way.

I'd be real interested in what LDWF has to say. I bought my used yak at a flea market in Florida 3-4 years ago.. I lost the receipt in the move from FL back to LA almost two years ago. I bought it from a eco tourisim outfitter who was upgrading his fleet of yaks. He was selling several, cash only. I have no earthly idea where/who he purchased it from, maybe he purchased direct from manufacturer. I don't remember the name of the outfitter or where he was located. (the flea market was a kind of regional thing) So how much hassle do you think I would encounter trying to register my yak?????

[Yak-a-Lou]

I talked to Cpt. Rachel Zechenelly today about all of this. This may take a week or two to settle. She's attempting to set up a meeting between herself, the head of registration and one of our Lt. Col.'s. Before the meeting she plans to contact DWF/DNR departments in other coastal areas (Texas, California, North & South Carolina, and/or Florida, etc...) to seek advice from them about this rather unique situation. After that meeting she'll attend our next club meeting to share the decisions. She'll also supply us with PDF's (not PFD's ;) ) of the necessary forms so that we can make a "Get You Yak Registered" corner on our website with instructions, advice, etc...

During our conversation she appeared to be aware of the issues at hand, understanding to our plight and willing to work toward a reasonable answer. A "perfect" solution may (possibly, perhaps, might) actually require new legislation during the next legislative session. A "perfect" solution probably doesn't exist but answers are being sought.

Part of the problem lies here: http://www.legis.state.la.us/

Go to above website.
Click on "Louisiana Laws" in the lower left hand corner.
Click on "Table of Contents" near center of page.
Click on "Revised Statutes."
Scroll down and click on "Title 34."
Scroll down to statutes 852.1 through 852.23
Take four Excedrin.
Happy reading!!!

Another problem lies with the tax code. The tax code requires LDWF to collect/inspect proof that taxes were paid prior to registering a vessel. (Blame the tax man.) Everyone is supposed to pay state taxes on anything purchased online from an out of state vendor. Almost no one does. To get a vessel registered, taxes must be paid. If they don't get you on the front end, they'll get you on the back end.

All new kayaks, canoes and pirogues are SUPPPOSED to be sold with a manufacturer's statement of origin. A receipt should be included with any sale from a dealer. In the future I'd like to encourage EVERYONE to keep these papers in a file so the second owner can, if he or she desires, have a smaller problem with registering a boat IF they decide to put a motor on it. Historically I've been as guilty as the next guy. I know I've bought and sold 6-8 kayaks and never transferred any paperwork, not even a simple handwritten bill of sale. I plan to change that in the future.

[jallen355]

Hey YAL. Got an MSO on the old Cuda??? Lol! Kidding man. She won't let the kids "have" it. Only borrow it. And won't paddle my Ride anymore. Oh, and she don't want no dang motor on it....despite WHAT she might say at Outcasts. She sure loves that old 250. Probably 'cause she can still out paddle my lame a$$ w/a trollin' mota.

Oh, and as said before. Registering a yak is a mute point unless you are putting a motor on it.

[valvguy1]

Thanks Yakalou. I agree that the Capt seemed sympathetic to our plight. I'll probably hear from her in the next couple days. If we need to lobby the legislature I'd be happy to help in that effort. If we do..... might I suggest that we follow some of the other states lead and change the law to NOT require registration for electric motors at all!

[Psycho Joe]

I suggest that we follow some of the other states lead and change the law to NOT require registration for electric motors at all!

I'd second that motion!

[yak-aholic]

Part of the problem lies here: http://www.legis.state.la.us/

Go to above website.
Click on "Louisiana Laws" in the lower left hand corner.
Click on "Table of Contents" near center of page.
Click on "Revised Statutes."
Scroll down and click on "Title 34."
Scroll down to statutes 852.1 through 852.23
Take four Excedrin.
Happy reading!!!



I tried... NOT my kind of reading.

[who-yak]

Changing what you do is not the solution. I'm sure if you forget to cross a t, or dot an i your document won't be valid.

[elementfiftyfour]

You are correct. No motor=no registration. Motor (even electric)=registration.

Is there anything else that needs to be done even if registration isn't required? Otherwise all I have is my bill of sale from West Marine here in Metairie.

[Where Y'ak?]

Nothing else. If it has no motor, it does not have to be registered. Keep your Bill of Sale in a safe place as proof of ownership. You do not have to carry it with you.

[Branch_Office]

There should have been a "Cerificate of Orgin" that came with that yak as well. If not, ask for one to be sent from the manufacturer. If you ever do decide to do anything motor wise or register in another sate this will be required.

[elementfiftyfour]

Ok good that's what I thought. I guess after reading most of this thread I wanted a little bit of reassurance that I wouldn't find out the hard way that I forgot something.

And yes, I forgot to mention that I do have the certificate of origin that came with the boat.

Thanks for the info.